HARDGOODS 25/26

[jota]

As someone who has sat on the sidelines and watched the discourse go down over the past week or so, just wanted to throw my two cents in.

Do I think current Step-On/fast entry trend is a bit silly? Yes. Do I think the majority of riders need a step in binding? No. Do I have any desire to switch from my Unions to a step in binding? No. Am I the target demographic? Fuck no and I don't think there's many of us that would be who post on this forum.

Fact of the matter is, that shit sells, especially to the 'non-core' market. Faster strap in time to keep up with their skier friends, response, whatever use case they want to tell themselves, they want it. I believe over 50% of Burton's overall sales last year were Step-On related product, which exceeded their target goal. When I help out at local sales here in the Bay Area during the fall, there is a very large percentage of people coming in specifically asking for Step-On/fast entry product. These people are definitely not what I'd consider 'core' riders, but core products don't make money (feel like Doc talking core v non-core lol).

It's not anything I would personally ride or recommend, but the demand is out there (from both a consumer and retailer standpoint) and snowboard companies are pivoting their product lines to meet that market demand. With Union now pumping out their own Step-On branded products and FASE bindings coming online as well, the whole fast entry trend is gaining acceptance and is here to stay, at least for the time being. Whether that dies out in a few years, like the whole reverse camber phase, who knows, but the products are night and day better than what the industry has previously produced. The consumer market dictates product innovation and it's obvious the market wants more fast entry bindings.

This forum has been pretty dead for multiple years, relative to the old BMB/EL days. Here comes a dude who's involved in the industry, who has a wealth of knowledge and clearly has a love for snowboarding and to basically shit on him and potentially drive him away, is goofy as fuck to me.

A friend of mine has a surf shop and also sells snowboards. In the last few years he only sells step ons and not a single custom… He is thinking of stopping selling snowboard because it’s not worth it to sell only step ons (it is not really a lot) and only a few boards and there is still a lot of hardgoods left unsold. But if he didn't have step ons he wouldn't sell anything.
I also think that the customer who buys step ons from him is a casual customer (not a core rider) and doesn't know what he is buying… or in other words, doesn’t know how the binding works but is looking for a quick entry

[kimchi]

A new burnt orange colorway for AK? Hopefully it shows up in some of their more affordable pieces.


IMG_7369.jpeg

This is whatever used to be AK457 or whatever they call it now ("AK Japan Guide?"). These colorways don't transfer over, which sucks because that shade of blue is awesome.

[casjcade]

As someone who has sat on the sidelines and watched the discourse go down over the past week or so, just wanted to throw my two cents in.

Do I think current Step-On/fast entry trend is a bit silly? Yes. Do I think the majority of riders need a step in binding? No. Do I have any desire to switch from my Unions to a step in binding? No. Am I the target demographic? Fuck no and I don't think there's many of us that would be who post on this forum.

Fact of the matter is, that shit sells, especially to the 'non-core' market. Faster strap in time to keep up with their skier friends, response, whatever use case they want to tell themselves, they want it. I believe over 50% of Burton's overall sales last year were Step-On related product, which exceeded their target goal. When I help out at local sales here in the Bay Area during the fall, there is a very large percentage of people coming in specifically asking for Step-On/fast entry product. These people are definitely not what I'd consider 'core' riders, but core products don't make money (feel like Doc talking core v non-core lol).

It's not anything I would personally ride or recommend, but the demand is out there (from both a consumer and retailer standpoint) and snowboard companies are pivoting their product lines to meet that market demand. With Union now pumping out their own Step-On branded products and FASE bindings coming online as well, the whole fast entry trend is gaining acceptance and is here to stay, at least for the time being. Whether that dies out in a few years, like the whole reverse camber phase, who knows, but the products are night and day better than what the industry has previously produced. The consumer market dictates product innovation and it's obvious the market wants more fast entry bindings.

This forum has been pretty dead for multiple years, relative to the old BMB/EL days. Here comes a dude who's involved in the industry, who has a wealth of knowledge and clearly has a love for snowboarding and to basically shit on him and potentially drive him away, is goofy as fuck to me.

A friend of mine has a surf shop and also sells snowboards. In the last few years he only sells step ons and not a single custom… He is thinking of stopping selling snowboard because it’s not worth it to sell only step ons (it is not really a lot) and only a few boards and there is still a lot of hardgoods left unsold. But if he didn't have step ons he wouldn't sell anything.
I also think that the customer who buys step ons from him is a casual customer (not a core rider) and doesn't know what he is buying… or in other words, doesn’t know how the binding works but is looking for a quick entry

Won't "Surfy" snowboards with fancy graphics and a good edge be better for a surf shop than dull popsicle sticks? Or you know, not fis event branding all over. Korua/US and the like would work too.

[benjinyc]

I don’t think so, at least in America. If you’re selling surfboards, your store is prob located somewhere close to the ocean and too far away from a mountain that’d be good for those types of boards

We’ve had two surf shops that both tried to sell US and gentem, they’re still to niche for most customers, would rather go to the Burton flagship or REI here instead. Most surfers that snowboard maybe go 2-3 days max a season. Instead of flying to colorado for winter vacations they go to costa rica

[drmoebius]

A new burnt orange colorway for AK? Hopefully it shows up in some of their more affordable pieces.


IMG_7369.jpeg

This is whatever used to be AK457 or whatever they call it now ("AK Japan Guide?"). These colorways don't transfer over, which sucks because that shade of blue is awesome.

I have to admit, I haven't seen them in person, but those gaiters look so stupid.

[casjcade]

I think it's nice, noone notices it while you ride anyways. Pants don't get dirty or tangled in binding straps, highback or edges.

[Alkasquawlik]

A friend of mine has a surf shop and also sells snowboards. In the last few years he only sells step ons and not a single custom… He is thinking of stopping selling snowboard because it’s not worth it to sell only step ons (it is not really a lot) and only a few boards and there is still a lot of hardgoods left unsold. But if he didn't have step ons he wouldn't sell anything.
I also think that the customer who buys step ons from him is a casual customer (not a core rider) and doesn't know what he is buying… or in other words, doesn’t know how the binding works but is looking for a quick entry

That tracks. Like I said, Step On/fast entry shit sells, especially to the casual rider. I've had some recent conversations with a few friends who are shop managers/buyers up in Tahoe after the WWSRA tradeshow earlier this month. Even in a market that caters towards more experienced/advanced riders, they've seen an influx of customers coming in specifically looking for fast entry products and they've adjusted their orders for next year to meet the demand. They'll lose potential sales if they don't stock the product. Consumer wants X product, so retailer stocks X product and company makes/innovates more of X product. Moving down the hill to the Bay Area/larger metro, with a higher population of casual riders/weekend warriors, the demand is even more obvious. The amount of complete kooks who came in to these pre-season sales, specifically looking for fast entry products, and dropped $1,500+ on a Step-On related set up after spending like 10 minutes in the store is mind blowing to me.

The casual riders, the ones who get ~5 days on hill a year and make up 90%+ of the consumer base, are the ones driving the demand and companies are pivoting their product lines accordingly. That shit isn't for me, but I also haven't paid MSRP on anything snowboard related in close to two decades, so my opinion and product preference do not matter. Let the kooks buy the silly shit they want, so snowboard companies and B&M shops can continue to operate as a business and thrive.

Riiiiiiiiiight. He was nothing but a super friendly dude that caught shit from multiple people for literally no reason and we should all just be thankful that he's saving our "dead" forum haha.

Goofy take. I'm obviously appreciative of @pow_hnd and others who have kept this little corner of the internet alive over the years, but the current iteration is admittedly a shell of its former self, relative to the BMB/OG EL days. IMO, the forum is healthier with people like @dpartridge7 interacting in it, even if you don't agree with the product he's shilling.

[Msteff]

As someone who has sat on the sidelines and watched the discourse go down over the past week or so, just wanted to throw my two cents in.

Do I think current Step-On/fast entry trend is a bit silly? Yes. Do I think the majority of riders need a step in binding? No. Do I have any desire to switch from my Unions to a step in binding? No. Am I the target demographic? Fuck no and I don't think there's many of us that would be who post on this forum.

Fact of the matter is, that shit sells, especially to the 'non-core' market. Faster strap in time to keep up with their skier friends, response, whatever use case they want to tell themselves, they want it. I believe over 50% of Burton's overall sales last year were Step-On related product, which exceeded their target goal. When I help out at local sales here in the Bay Area during the fall, there is a very large percentage of people coming in specifically asking for Step-On/fast entry product. These people are definitely not what I'd consider 'core' riders, but core products don't make money (feel like Doc talking core v non-core lol).

It's not anything I would personally ride or recommend, but the demand is out there (from both a consumer and retailer standpoint) and snowboard companies are pivoting their product lines to meet that market demand. With Union now pumping out their own Step-On branded products and FASE bindings coming online as well, the whole fast entry trend is gaining acceptance and is here to stay, at least for the time being. Whether that dies out in a few years, like the whole reverse camber phase, who knows, but the products are night and day better than what the industry has previously produced. The consumer market dictates product innovation and it's obvious the market wants more fast entry bindings.

This forum has been pretty dead for multiple years, relative to the old BMB/EL days. Here comes a dude who's involved in the industry, who has a wealth of knowledge and clearly has a love for snowboarding and to basically shit on him and potentially drive him away, is goofy as fuck to me.

I feel the need to once again state that we’re all just old heads playing with toys. None of this should be taken as seriously as it has been lately. Moreover, it’s over now and we should all just move on. With that said the issue was well stated in the binding forum. There is a general sense that being a mature, respectful adult, and keeping it civil is valued here. The intense and forceful declarative nature was off putting to many (myself included), as was the outright dismissal of people’s opinions, preferences, and
critiques as completely invalid. When it comes to preference and opinion there is no single right answer and people can do what they like. Whatever, it’s snowboarding and it’s not that big a deal, it also done now and everyone seems to be doing much better, which is great.

[Alkasquawlik]

I feel the need to once again state that we’re all just old heads playing with toys. None of this should be taken as seriously as it has been lately. Moreover, it’s over now and we should all just move on. With that said the issue was well stated in the binding forum. There is a general sense that being a mature, respectful adult, and keeping it civil is valued here. The intense and forceful declarative nature was off putting to many (myself included), as was the outright dismissal of people’s opinions, preferences, and
critiques as completely invalid. When it comes to preference and opinion there is no single right answer and people can do what they like. Whatever, it’s snowboarding and it’s not that big a deal, it also done now and everyone seems to be doing much better, which is great.

I don't disagree. At the end of the day, we're all just sliding down frozen water on planks of wood. Let people buy silly shit if they want.

[Msteff]

Totally. Nothing is mutually exclusive here. This stuff can all at the same time be silly, sell really really well, not be for certain people (you, me, most of us on this forum), not matter that it isn’t for us (we’re a small part of the market, a lot of us don’t pay or at least don’t pay retail), our rationale for why it isn’t for us and what is for us can be valid, our critiques of this silly stuff can be valid, and our rationale and critique can not matter much to anyone but us (see small part of the market, not paying msrp).