EzLounging

yukinori wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:40 pmI think cultural appropriation might be overshooting it... but maybe NOT because the "snow surf" approach has always been a part of Japanese snowboarding since the 80's? you mightve seen a few fish shaped boards at a mountain (if any) in N.A. or EU 15 years ago but hit a small unknown mountain in Japan then and you wouldve seen MANY.

If we're getting technical, a dude in Michigan created the first "snow surfer" in the 60s and named it as such. Snowboarding's entire genesis was people trying to bring surfing to frozen water.

Come on y’all, JJ is a snowboarder. Snowboarders shouldn't hate on snowboarders. Less noise more signal.
We have plenty of characters in this world to hate on other than people who are doing their best in this industry. I say support snowboarder owned companies, that includes Nidecker.

Subject is Hardgoods 24/25 no Jeremy Jones

SprockingCrail wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:23 pm Come on y’all, JJ is a snowboarder. Snowboarders shouldn't hate on snowboarders. Less noise more signal.
We have plenty of characters in this world to hate on other than people who are doing their best in this industry. I say support snowboarder owned companies, that includes Nidecker.

You’re confusing hate, actual hate, with calling out someone when they are full of shit.

I may have said hate in jest, but I don’t hate him.

BUT, my ass may be dumb, but I’m not a dumb ass.

There are 197 countries in the world, and JJ has chosen to build his in the country, or more specifically, city, with the highest carbon foot print per person in the world. A place that has absolutely zero natural resources for sustaining life. Everything, and I mean everything there needed for the people to live is imported.

Then there’s the fact that the place was built on slave labor, literally, not figuratively. It’s well documented and reported on.

But maybe birds of a feather flock together, because Dubai is putting on a hell of a greenwashing campaign much like Jones Snowboards does.

Then there are his outright lies. He “cracked the code” and came up with Spoon Tech? Yeah, sorry, not really, see there was this company named Morrow who came up with Spoon Tech and literally had a fucking deck named Spoon, with, you guessed it, Spoon Tech. He didn’t crack shit.

So, no, I don’t hate the guy, I’ve better things to do with my energy and honesty my opinion of him is so low I could care less.

BUT, I’ll call bullshit when I see/hear it.

He really could do himself a favor and just be a tad bit more humble, stop with the bullshit, and get off his high and might pedestal he has in his own mind.

I mean look at what Capita has done with the Mothership. Their products are way, way, way more sustainable and ethically built, with a far lower carbon footprint. They don’t claim to have invented shit they didn’t and they are in a country/local that can sustain life on its own. I’m not even a Capita fan, but I respect them. I’m not a Jones fan' but I don’t respect them, at all.

FYI, I have sparred with him and Jones on Insta, and every time I lay out all the facts, both he and Jones say look at our webpage as if that fucking means anything.

IDK, maybe he sold his soul to Nidecker and is hamstrung by them… But if he cared as much as he claims, why would have he ever got himself into that situation to begin with…

And just to be clear, I feel the same way about all products coming out of SWS, the difference is YES isn’t making all these grandiose statements, so while I might not want to buy a YES product, I don’t feel they are full of shit blow hards.

Supra wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:39 am Snow surf was happening in France in 1983 and was influenced by the earlier Wintersticks, so you can't really say 'snow surf' is a Japanese invention. I don't think cultural appropriation is the correct term. Personally, the graphics of the Weston Japow make me cringe, and the Lib Tech Mayhem swallowtail....but the Japanese like it, so they're not offended in any way.

Moss started in Japan in 1971, around the same time as Winterstick in the US but my point wasn't really about who made the first boards but rather that 'snowsurf' as an approach to shaping and riding is very much a Japanese thing that has been going the whole time. Making boards for non-extreme freeriding, a light touch in beautiful pow turns, a carving style on groomed snow that is influenced more by surfing than racing, and so on. Maybe people in the West have been doing those things all along but it hasn't really been part of the culture or marketing until quite recently. In Japan it has always been the culture. In 1993 JJ was bashing slalom gates while Taro Tamai was shaping rocker nosed pow boards .

Anyhoo, for 24/25 I would like a Nitro Alternator with decent graphics please.

Pedro8888 wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:43 pm Subject is Hardgoods 24/25 no Jeremy Jones

sorry, back in topic.

So really JJ borrowed a Mantaray from gentemstick?
I think rip off products design from competitors is common in every industry (how many design are NOT inspired by others, to a degree?), but at least he could have purchased the deck.

Kevington wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 2:12 am

Supra wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:39 am Snow surf was happening in France in 1983 and was influenced by the earlier Wintersticks, so you can't really say 'snow surf' is a Japanese invention. I don't think cultural appropriation is the correct term. Personally, the graphics of the Weston Japow make me cringe, and the Lib Tech Mayhem swallowtail....but the Japanese like it, so they're not offended in any way.

Moss started in Japan in 1971, around the same time as Winterstick in the US but my point wasn't really about who made the first boards but rather that 'snowsurf' as an approach to shaping and riding is very much a Japanese thing that has been going the whole time. Making boards for non-extreme freeriding, a light touch in beautiful pow turns, a carving style on groomed snow that is influenced more by surfing than racing, and so on. Maybe people in the West have been doing those things all along but it hasn't really been part of the culture or marketing until quite recently. In Japan it has always been the culture. In 1993 JJ was bashing slalom gates while Taro Tamai was shaping rocker nosed pow boards .

Anyhoo, for 24/25 I would like a Nitro Alternator with decent graphics please.

I dunno man, this is a pretty big reach IMO and you’ve largely made a caricature out of the western snowboard scene.

For example, the racing/slalom stuff was really only big in the US on the east coast with Jake and that whole scene he helped create. Out west, Tom Sims’ entire thing was bringing surfing and skating to snow because he wanted to keep doing those things in the mountains in the winter. He started shaping very surf-inspired boards in the 60s when he was a teenager to mimic his experiences in the water, and that blew up huge all across the west coast. That’s why most freestyle contests ended up being out west and most slaloms were out east. I dunno how you can disconnect the California surf and skate scenes of the 50s, 60s, and 70s from this to say anyone is just ripping off a niche scene in Japan. “Snow surfing” was just an extension of an already established boardsports culture in the west.

Besides, the whole “cultural appropriation” thing is never ending. Using your own logic, neither surfing or snow sports were invented in Japan, so the idea of “snow surfing” in the first place came from other cultures at the time. It just becomes a perpetual struggle session and stifles collaboration and growth if we’re all meant to stay in our “lane”.

Everyone that knows anything knows that true snow surfing blossomed like a magic firework flower shooting into existence out of a smooch between Jake Burton and Tom Sims when they shared a single chair at the National Snurfing Championship. Some say at that very moment, you could hear Sherman Poppen hoot'n'hollar somewhere in the distance.

I wish y'all would stop appropriating sharing ideas though. I saw someone do something with a thing that wasn't even from that area and someone else had done it first. Like they didn't even come up with it on their own. I wanted to shame them, but I couldn't because I wasn't sure how to do it without using vibrational noises that others had invented before me. Luckily at that very moment I stepped on a piece of scrap wood on a snowy hill and slipped, thereby inventing sliding on snow by accident on my own, and so I'm able to slide on a board in the snow without the shame of appropriation. I hope I accidentally invent sweet breads soon.

As far as JJ hate...We're just socializing, spit balling and opinionating while drinking skinny tall cans of Whiteclaw and throwing circus peanut shells on the floor. Snowboard history, like life, has it's dirt and some of it is fun and some of it is funky. None of these threads, despite the topics, have ever been above a digression in conversation.

Vanni wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 4:03 am

Pedro8888 wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:43 pm Subject is Hardgoods 24/25 no Jeremy Jones

sorry, back in topic.

So really JJ borrowed a Mantaray from gentemstick?
I think rip off products design from competitors is common in every industry (how many design are NOT inspired by others, to a degree?), but at least he could have purchased the deck.

The saying goes, "Good artists borrow, great artists steal".

Here borrowing means to copy, and stealing means to take something and make it into your own.

The sin for JJ seems to be that he more or less copied in a way that some feel was blatant or gross.

But others will say, there's only so many variations of tweaking a snowboard shape before it begins to resemble another one that's already been done.

I think both can be true. And I weight both with a small amount of concern.