OUTERWEAR

[coleslawed]

i think sr. fuzzy is referring more to their marketing than the actual product. Jones is also only like two seasons into outerwear, though, so time will tell how long it lasts or if quality improves.

[bksdds]

@pow_hnd Can you elaborate on your opinion of the jones stuff? Not many places where I'm at in the midwest even carry regular AK.

I think it was 2 years ago at one of the few places I check out actually had pieces of high end holden gear. 1k+ down jacket, goretex shell jacket, and pants that were 800$ each. Aesthetically those holden pieces were on point.

At Vail I thought it was interesting that I rarely saw any current high end outwear on the 10 percenters.

[michaelangelo]

Every AK item I’ve bought has been bombproof from base layers to outerwear - granted, I’m not splitting like some of you but spend plenty of time bushwhacking in the Midwest.

[C.Fuzzy]

I think Jones, with his positioning as THE back country big mountain adventure brand, has an edge on odds that the BC Adventurist market has enough high-income earning dreamers to buy the technical outerwear he's selling. There's not really even a close second in that category. Most brands are "do it all".

Have held the Jones stuff? It has a ways to go before it's as close to being as refined and technical as the AK457 stuff and it doesn't have the AK lifetime warranty...

But yeah, Burton needs to make it more readily available here in the US to compete. Been pretty spotty the last few seasons here in the US.

I've not touched a piece of Jones outerwear. But I'm not really talking about quality because it's not the main factor to a successful brand. Quite a lot of people are willing to deal with sub-par quality if the brand aligns with their self image even if a better quality product exists at the same price point (or less expensive even) but doesn't fit their image of themselves.

Many examples of this but for a perfectly clear one, When faced with the choice between a Wisconsin Badger jacket or a much better Michigan Wolverines jacket at the same price, the chilly Badger fan isn't going to buy the Wolverines Jacket.

I believe Jones has a unique positioning because back country expeditions tend to demand more technical gear, which drives the higher pricepoint. So even though snowboarders on a whole don't seem to buy into the "luxury branding" of snowboard gear, there's this alternate open door to technical gear that Jones has created largely with his video series, in the minds of a certain type of rider.

So, if a snowboarder is getting into BC stuff and wants to fit in, even if for example 32 has a better kit, the Jones one will make him look how he wants to look. Of course technical gear isn't necessarily "luxury gear" but it's a step towards a much higher price point having support in snowboarding's cultural milieu.

Long story short, only kooks wear shiny puffy jackets. Which is why snowboarders don't have luxury brands.

[AyAyRon]

i think that last point is spot on.

the existence of Arc’teryx is proof that pricey “higher” end outerwear has a place in snow sports, yet any snowboard-specific brands offering similar price points (but maybe not necessarily the features) don’t seem to last (Cappel, Holden, Homeschool could maybe fit in there).

meanwhile, the younger generation is just fine with fully thrifted kits, be they waterproof or not.

The regular line Arc'teryx stuff is not really priced any higher that the other shit it competes with (Patagonia, upper end North Face, Rab, Fjallraven, BlakYak etc ad infinitum) and it's not expensive just to be expensive, as would mostly define a "luxury" brand. It's all still Gore Tex and Polartec and Schoeller or in house versions of it.

Arc'teryx as well as its competitors offer function and a normal, relatively average athletic fit (for either North America or Europe). Holden did not. Holden went for fashion forward with supposed "luxury". Their shit was idiotic. Short, wide fits and goofy nonfunctional features, I'm sure they used nice fabrics, but they had zero brand recognition to skiers and fashionistas and snowboarders don't have money for expensive bullshit. A certain subset of snowboarders will pay for stuff they perceive they need to be safe in the backcountry or whatever, but holden offered almost none of that.

There are lots of reasons brands don't make it, and not always necessarily good reasons. Everyone I know that had Homeschool stuff loved it and it didn't seem to have quality or performance issues, but who knows what their back-end customer service and retailer relationships were like? Plus, it's pretty hard to get factories to make your shit correctly, on time and cheaply when you're not a big player.

The reason ThirtyTwo can keep an outerwear line in the market is they have an established brand, relationships with shops, capital/credit and history/leverage with factories to put in big enough orders, and they make it as cheap as possible by using the minimum acceptable level of technology while cutting every possible reasonable corner in construction. They also do a good job of making an appealing product to the right demographic. They are smart because they don't compromise on their boots, which keeps the brand satisfaction high and doesn't affect their credibility. No one really gives a fuck about outerwear unless its absolute garbage.

[tp1_kenobi]

I've just warrantied an AK Freebird via Burton as the inner membrane pulled apart on the lower left sleeve. I noticed it after washing the jacket after the season finished. I've been debating going Volcom/Norrona on my next setup, but the Burton lifetime warranty and support is almost too good to move somewhere else.

Tear:

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I emailed Burton and they had me send the jacket to a local repairer. No issues here from me as this is the first point of call for Burton, repair where possible (better for the environment and manufacturing chain). To which after the repair, they pressure tested the area and the membrane failed. The entire left sleeve was drenched after the repair and pressure test. To this point Burton pointed me to GoreTex to fulfill their "Guaranteed to keep you dry".

Post Pressure Test:

image003 (1).png (594.15 KiB) Viewed 1139 times

This went back and forth with Gore where they tried to blame me for not taking care of the jacket to avoid a warranty claim. All untrue as I keep my gear in good shape which was from 2015 and has survived a ton of split trips. Gore accused me saying the fraying of the velcro near the sleeve and "visual abrasion" around the jacket was due to poor maintenance, and the warranty was void. I informed Gore that the velcro fraying would be a Burton claim and that a velcro fray has no bearing on membrane failure. I also asked the Gore rep where sees the "visual abrasion" so I could send more detailed photos to prove the Gore warranty rep wrong. Burton chimed in and I ended up getting a full refund of my purchase from Gore. I was pretty surprised on how this played out between customer, business and another business.

Anyhow...keep your receipts on your AK purchases. Prices of Gore jackets have gone up a crazy amount since 2015.

[Edit] This also got me to looking up Gore, recycled fabrics, and what "appears to be" the Gore fabric not being anywhere close to environmentally friendly based on its use case w/in the environment we play in. This was just some very brief Youtube searches and I didn't dig into much further, but got me thinking on what type of fabrics can play a similar role to Gore but have a better impact on the environment. Searching got me to Fjallraven, but their stuff is so far from the BC stuff I do. Happy to entertain any ideas out there. I've also got a Merino Mountain Jacket from McNair which I haven't taken into the BC. The thing is wonderfully built but weighs a ton.[/Edit]

[unsuspected]

@tp1_kenobi If you are looking at Fjällräven the Bergtagen and Keb line are BC focused., also check out Klättermusen. Similar but more for skiing/snowboarding.

[tp1_kenobi]

@tp1_kenobi If you are looking at Fjällräven the Bergtagen and Keb line are BC focused., also check out Klättermusen. Similar but more for skiing/snowboarding.

Thanks for that, I’ll take a look. You know anyone that rolls w their jackets that have had hands on BC experience?

[unsuspected]

Unfortunately I don’t. Bought a KM Brage jacket but the fit was bit off for my torso. It’s on the slimmer side and long arms, I’m the opposite.

[tp1_kenobi]

Went to Fjallraven and gave the Keb eco-shell a try. Fit seemed good and arm length was what I wanted. While it’s a shell through and through, there isn’t any specific split features other than two chest pockets to hold your skins and pretty large pit zips. No goggle pocket (although I never use that) or internal mesh pockets. Felt in line w the Freebird as minimalist. Hood action felt sturdy and articulated. Found out that they had the color I wanted at 50% off and became a no-brainer to buy. Design is minimalist w no outlandish branding other than a stitched arm logo, tiny Swedish flag on the torso, and a tiny logo on the hood.

They only offer a 2 year warranty which is light imho as compared to Burton’s lifetime; but willing to try with the hope that the fabric and build quality does as marketed and more eco-conscious. Personally I think they need to back up the warranty longer to line up with some of their pricing.

Anyways stoked on the new jacket (felt odd not supporting a snowboard brand) and will be running it w my freebird bibs.