spanyard wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:16 am
They were definitely there in the mid '90s
First year was W 97/98, very limited distribution, first real year was W98/99. I was on the program at the time as an R&D rider.
spanyard wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:16 am
Nidecker is basically a wide monoski brand. Change my mind.
Nidecker actually makes very high quality decks. Some of their decks were way ahead of their time. The Ultralight had taper and was arguably the best pow deck on the market W00/01. Many other brands followed suit, Fish, 1986SM, etc, etc... They just had the usual fucked up Euro marketing, team and graphics making them a dead end in the states for the most part. But at that time they were the Burton of Europe. They were everywhere over there.
SLC, UT - Cardiff Snowcraft - NOW - Spark R & D - AK457 - DC - Anon - Milosport -
I was super in love with this Salomon lineup when they first came out. The House (when they were more brick and mortar than online sales) got the first shipment of them in, and they were drool-worthy.
spanyard wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:36 am
Coincidentally, '90s legend Jason Ford just posted on the vintage snowboard group on Facebook:
Dang, talk about a blast from the past. I remember all those decks and have two myself, along with a proto Fastback, which was essentially Jasons deck. That step-in system completely slipped my mind. IIRC, it never made it to market really in the US, it did one or two years in Europe and then was done. I had some good days riding with Jason and the team in Colorado "testing" boards at Steamboat Powder Cats. Salmon had such deep pockets back then, budgets were stupid huge, part of the benefit of being owned by Adidas at the time and having Brad Steward calling the shots.
SLC, UT - Cardiff Snowcraft - NOW - Spark R & D - AK457 - DC - Anon - Milosport -
Random Q for the old heads inspired by those Salomon decks: how much do you think boards have actually improved over the years?
Early days the boards progress staggeringly fast. 1985 to 1995 is basically not even the same sport. 1995 to 2005 I can tell apart on-sight. 2005 to today... if the boards have a 4x2 pattern, I'd have to look closely if I don't recognize the topsheets.
My gut feeling is the past ~15-20-ish years is mostly just refinement and changing camber + shaping trends on the board side, while boots and bindings have made quantum leaps forward in the time period. If you gave me two full-camber boards with blank topsheets, a 2014 and a 2024, I'm not sure I could definitively say which is newer after riding them-- although maybe I just haven't ridden an old board in too long. I've ridden one pre-2010 board in the past 5 years (08 Malolo), so maybe I'm looking back with rose-tinted goggles.
kimchi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:19 pm
Random Q for the old heads inspired by those Salomon decks: how much do you think boards have actually improved over the years?
Early days the boards progress staggeringly fast. 1985 to 1995 is basically not even the same sport. 1995 to 2005 I can tell apart on-sight. 2005 to today... if the boards have a 4x2 pattern, I'd have to look closely if I don't recognize the topsheets.
My gut feeling is the past ~15-20-ish years is mostly just refinement and changing camber + shaping trends on the board side, while boots and bindings have made quantum leaps forward in the time period. If you gave me two full-camber boards with blank topsheets, a 2014 and a 2024, I'm not sure I could definitively say which is newer after riding them-- although maybe I just haven't ridden an old board in too long. I've ridden one pre-2010 board in the past 5 years (08 Malolo), so maybe I'm looking back with rose-tinted goggles.
What I observe is that the boards have evolved towards an objective: being able to be ridden by anyone. . They were much more difficult in the past. Today all they are catch free... harder... softer... but their riding is stable. predictable… forgiving… Think about an old custom X... or a custom… B frontier, rippey, winterstick severe terrain… Today no one board ride so hard …or so unforgiving
kimchi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:19 pm
Random Q for the old heads inspired by those Salomon decks: how much do you think boards have actually improved over the years?
Early days the boards progress staggeringly fast. 1985 to 1995 is basically not even the same sport. 1995 to 2005 I can tell apart on-sight. 2005 to today... if the boards have a 4x2 pattern, I'd have to look closely if I don't recognize the topsheets.
My gut feeling is the past ~15-20-ish years is mostly just refinement and changing camber + shaping trends on the board side, while boots and bindings have made quantum leaps forward in the time period. If you gave me two full-camber boards with blank topsheets, a 2014 and a 2024, I'm not sure I could definitively say which is newer after riding them-- although maybe I just haven't ridden an old board in too long. I've ridden one pre-2010 board in the past 5 years (08 Malolo), so maybe I'm looking back with rose-tinted goggles.
nah
way way way lighter
way more durable and fast bases
more predictable and easier to use resins
much greener production practices and materials
stupid shaping and contact point theories have basically all been dumped by the wayside (minus the borderline unrideable boards like the DWD pow reaper etc)
way more consistent manufacturing and quality (fly by night and big box store brands quality is a trillion times better)
even the inserts have progressed. a board from 2024 is lightyears beyond a 2010 board, there is no doubt. Just as much as a 2010 is from a 95 IMO.
stupid shaping and contact point theories have basically all been dumped by the wayside (minus the borderline unrideable boards like the DWD pow reaper etc)
way more consistent manufacturing and quality (fly by night and big box store brands quality is a trillion times better)
even the inserts have progressed. a board from 2024 is lightyears beyond a 2010 board, there is no doubt. Just as much as a 2010 is from a 95 IMO.
Word. Lot of that stuff sounds like more on the manufacturing + QC + environmental side, which I expected. I haven’t found bases/boards to be especially more durable but I was riding Never Summers from 2009-2013-ish lol. Say what you will about that brand, they overbuild the fuck out their boards and they can take a hit.
I can’t say I’ve noticed weight that much, but I’ve mostly transitioned over to wide Korua-esque boards, which weigh a shit ton. And again the baseline is Never Summers lmao.
Just hard for me as a layman to separate out “This board is constructed better” versus “This board rides better because it doesn’t have the gimmicky center rocker du jour”.
